Rush Limbaugh: Getting what he deserves or getting screwed?
GROUP DISCUSSION
October 5, 2003

Alexander Washburn: Is Rush Limbaugh getting what he deserves or getting screwed?

Michael Walls: Well, both. I think he deserves to get screwed. I think he said what he said because he's a pompous idiot, and thought he was being clever and controversial. He's the type of person who would say something like that, without even believing it. What he forgot was, he was in a sports setting and not some geeky, political forum, where the goal is usually to cause controversy and start a fight.

Mike Spinney: What did Limbaugh actually say? I've heard various versions on various talk shows, most of which are hosted by folks who don't much care for Limbaugh. If it was a poke at the media for a racial bias/pc compensation, I think that's a legitimate topic for debate. If it was a poke at black QBs, then I don't think they guy's got a defensible position. I don't much care for Rush Windbag, but I'd like to see an actual transcript of the statement that caused this brouhaha.

Alexander Washburn: Here is what he said: “I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team.''

For me, the Limbaugh firing was nothing but an overreaction by the media all because somebody questioned their intentions. The NFL and the media have lofted the expectations and the talent level of black QB's. Did Aaron Brooks really deserve all those K-Swiss commercials in 2001? Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady and Brad Johnson have not become darlings of the media and the NFL even though they've won Super Bowls. Everyone makes a big deal out of McNabb's pro-bowl selections – come on – its the pro-bowl for crying out loud. The fans chose that and everybody knows you don't have to be the best player to get selected - just the most popular. Big deal is also made of McNabb leading Philly to three consecutive NFC championships. Well Danny White led the Cowboys to three consecutive NFC championships without a Super Bowl and I don't see anyone calling him one of the greatest. Fact is every black QB in the NFL has a ways to go before they're labeled great. Three good seasons does not a career make.

Stephan Finch: Plus everybody knows it's not McNabb's race that's at issue, it's the fact that he's Irish.

Craig Curtice: Limbaugh is just like Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder, except Rush is a pill popper, not a boozer. I've always suspected that Bill O' Reilly is a closet pot smoking satanist.

Mike Spinney: Okay... First, the comment was not racist. It was stupid, but not racist. Limbaugh charging the NFL/football media with wanting to see a black NFL QB do well suggests the guy knows less about football than me. Black QBs have done very well in the NFL. Perhaps Limbaugh has never heard the names Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Steve McNair – excellent QBs, all. Even Donovan McNabb, whom Limbaugh charged as being less than stellar and getting the credit his defense deserved, is a successful black QB.

The credibility of both Limbaugh and NFL Sunday Countdown was at stake with Limbaugh making such stupid comments, but you can hardly call what he said racist. I do agree that he was trying to be controversial and forgot he wasn't speaking to his radio audience. He's an idiot, for sure.

The other sad thing about this was to hear that presidential candidates Howard Dean, Wesley Clark, and Al Sharpton all jumped at the opportunity to use this as a means to get publicity. Al Sharpton I can see – that's always been his schtick. But Dean and Clark? C'mon – if there's any racism in this story, it's with those guys, whose motives for commenting on this incident seem clearly to pander to the black vote.

Mike Webb: Just back from the (awesome) Yankees game and I just want to say please don't mix my politics with my football or my football with my politics. They hired Rush because they knew he'd say something "controversial" and then when he did – they were aghast. I'm a Steelers fan and all I care about is winning a Super Bowl. If they had won it with Kordell Stewart, I would have been psyched. If they win one with Tommy Maddox, I'll be psyched. I could give a goddamn about the QB's color, and I could give a goddamn about whatever Rush has to say about anything.

David Brown: Three issues here: One, Rush showed his ignorance about football. I’ve watched McNabb consistently throughout his career. He has evolved into a top quarterback. If you look at his passing stats, they aren’t phenomenal, but I think his running ability (at least 400 yards each of last 3 seasons) adds a dimension that improves his overall value as a QB. He’s never been regarded as particularly accurate. But let’s also consider the fact that most scouts regard his receivers as average or worse. Has he ever had a true number one receiver to throw to?

Check his TD/INT rates for the last 3 years: 21/13, 25/12, 17/6. Those are good numbers. Also, his Pro Bowl selections should not be discounted as the players vote on the Pro Bowl, not the fans. Again, his ability to run makes him a better QB than his passing numbers show. Plus, it makes him a more exciting player to watch. I think if there has been any hype machine behind McNabb, it’s because of his ability to both run and pass. Obviously one could make an argument about the racial implications of the new-school mobile QB vs. the traditional pocket passer. But just off the top of my head: Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Steve Young, John Elway, Mark Brunell – all guys who could run. I think most people would admit that watching a mobile QB with the skills of a McNabb is often more exciting than watching a pure pocket passer with bad legs like a Marino. Isn’t Brett Favre’s escapism (to borrow a term from James Brown) part of what makes him such a compelling QB to watch? If pure athleticism unrivaled except by the likes of Favre and Vick is the reason McNabb is overvalued as a QB, I’d say he’s earned it.

Second issue – Rush can harp all he wants about a liberal bias in the media. But to extend this to the sports media is inane. Particularly with regard to a player’s accomplishments on the field. I think most sportswriters and broadcasters would like to see more black coaches, GMs and owners in professional sports. If that’s a liberal agenda, then they are a bunch of liberals. But to say that they want a black QB to succeed because of a liberal agenda (which is clearly the implication here) is ridiculous. As Tony Kornheiser said on his radio show yesterday, sports between the lines is a democracy. People earn the praise that they get. Has anyone rallied behind Akili Smith? Isn’t the criticism of McNabb a result of his impressive performance over the past three years? People have been asking ‘What’s wrong with Donovan’ because he’s been so good the last 3 years.

Finally, the real issue for me is ESPN. Why did they hire this guy in the first place? And what did they expect? Isn’t this what they wanted? I’d be willing to bet that at some point they even encouraged him to be more controversial. They deserve any bad press or criticism they get. In fact, they’re getting let off the hook because all the attacks are aimed at Rush (Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie accused ESPN of institutional racism for hiring Rush—that’s a little crazy, but at least he’s on the right track).

Here’s the bottom line – leave sports broadcasting to sports broadcasters! No Dennis Millers or Rush Limbaughs or anybody else! It defames their product and insults their viewers. A few weeks ago Rush remarked how Mike Martz never took the Rams to the Super Bowl as a head coach (remember 2 years ago, Rush?). You don’t see big fat Chris Berman going on Meet the Press or Showtime at the Apollo. ESPN/ABC/Disney should be the ones taking the heat on this issue.

Michael Walls: Dave has pretty much nailed this one down. Limbaugh isn't a sport analyst. He isn't even a color guy (no pun intended). He's a political trouble-maker. You say black, he says white. You say up, he says down. Why he's sitting at a desk with Michael Irving and Steve Young is beyond me. His words are not a shock and not even relevant, they're just out of place. This whole issue shouldn't even be about Rush Limbaugh, or about Donovan McNabb for that matter. It's about ESPN. What were they hoping for? Limbaugh to discuss defensive techniques or coaching strategies? Based on what? Huge amounts of hours in front of the TV on Sunday afternoons? Someone at ESPN thought it would be a good idea to add some intelligent "spice" to a jarhead environment. And when Limbaugh does, what he does best – cause trouble – ESPN is shocked. I think ESPN needs to rethink the direction of their programming and leave the sports talk to sport experts, not talk experts.

Stephan Finch: Rush Limbaugh is a racist. A bigot. An ignoramus. Rush Limbaugh sees black men in coaching and quarterback positions that had for years been closed to them for no apparent reason other than racism and assumes that their presence in those positions is an act of charity. A gift given them by forces of political correctness. He sees one praised for fine performances and assumes the same.

It's this simple. Bigots just can't stand it when the media attention goes to anybody who doesn't look like they do. I thought Isiah Thomas' comments about Larry Bird were racist a few years ago, and it's clear to me Limbaugh's recent comment was just as racist. Bird forgave Thomas. Maybe we should too because Thomas doesn't spend three hours a day on the soapbox. But let's not cut Rush any slack.

Seems to me a couple of things have been heartening about the outrage over his racist comments. The most heartening is the fact that the shout-down was started and has been led by Miller High Life-drinking football fans. Rush Limbaugh has always insisted the twin powers of political correctness and the "liberal media" were peopled only by a tiny cadre of elistist Harvard-educated, sissy liberal, torah-reading, bookworms. What sweet revenge to see Limbaugh getting ass-fucked by the 300-pound Raiders fans he assumed he'd been getting applause from all these years.

The most hilarious thing has been to hear Limbaugh crowing about the first amendment. Boy, when did he become such a big fan? Isn't that one of those "liberal" amendments?

Still don't think Rush is a racist? Check out the latest report from Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (www.fair.org). It describes how in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." Or how when he become nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?" Or how he mocked the NAACP, saying "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

I'm all for lively debate, even on race relations. But let's not defend this guy. He's not worth it.

Mike Spinney: Who's defending Limbaugh? All the points I've read (though, I'll grant you I don't read 'em that closely sometimes) have pretty much echoed your assessment of Rush as a moron. My point is that the statement he made is not racist. It's ignorant, but not racist. His motivations may have been racist, but I don't know that for certain. I can only judge the words spoken, not the darkness of his heart. You build a strong case for Limbaugh's bigoted tendencies – one I will not try to counter since he's not worth the effort. But specific to his statement, his resignation was an overreaction and, perhaps, poetic justice. This whole issue illustrates the utter lack of integrity in what some would call broadcast journalism, albeit sports journalism.